This podcast is a recorded version of Avaana Climate Corner's fireside chat on India's Transition to Clean Energy. The podcast will cover the critical role of energy in solving for net zero/ emerging global trends, technology trends, regulatory enablers and advice for entrepreneurs building in this space. The transcript of the episode can be accessed here:- https://avaana.simplecast.com/episodes/india-transition-clean-energy
[00:00:00] Saksham Mittal:
We welcome you to the first fireside Chat on India's transition to Clean Energy, brought to you by Avaana Climate Corner. I'm Saksham Mittal, part of the investment team at Avaana Capital.
Today we have with us Dr. Praveer Sinha and Ms. Anjali Bansal as panelists. Dr. Praveer is the CEO and managing director of the Tata Power Company Limited, one of the India's oldest and largest integrated power utilities. A seasoned part professional with a career spanning over almost four decades, Dr. Sinha has led, has held several leadership positions across the power sector value.
As a CEO and MD of Tata Power Delhi Distribution Limited, he was instrumental in driving the turnaround of discoms through technological and social interventions and setting a benchmark model for other discoms and developing countries to follow. Under his current leadership, Tata Power is at the forefront of transforming itself from century old power utility company into a new age sustainable [00:01:00] technology-oriented and customer-centric green energy solutions company.
Dr. Sinha has led multiple partnerships with national and International Technology Partners and in institutional associations. He has contributed significantly towards setting up the first international incubator in India for promoting innovations in the clean energy space. He coess the CII National Community on par and is also a member of other national committees working on Indian power sector reforms.
Dr. Sinha is a qualified electrical engineer and has also done his master's in business law. He received his PhD from the Indian Institute of Technology Delhi and is a visiting research associate at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Anjali Bansal is the founding partner of Avaana Capital.
Previously, Anjali has been the non-executive chairperson of Dena bank, appointed by the government of India to steer the resolution of the stressed Bank, eventually leading to a merger with Bank of Verda. Prior to that, she was the global partner in managing director with TPG Growth, private Equity, responsible for India, Southeast Asia, Africa, and the Middle East.
She started a career as a [00:02:00] strategy consult with Mckinsey Company in New York. At Avaana ,she has led investments in category defining companies like Farmart, Eeki Foods, Turno. She has also invested and mentored various successful startup in the past, including Delhivery and Nykaa. She also serves as an independent non-executive board director on several leading boards, including Tata Power, Nestle, and Piramal Enterprises and Chairs the Climate Council within the Indian Venture Capital Association.
Over to you Anjali to take ahead
[00:02:28] Ms. Anjali Bansal: I have the singular pleasure today of driving this discussion with my very dear friend and colleague of many years on the Board of Tata Power, Dr. Praveer Sinha. I think Saksham has given an introduction, so I will not go on, but I will say this, that it is such a amazing sort of experience to see the journey in that Tata power has been on under Praveer's leadership.
Tata power has always been a pioneer. We were one of the first integrated power companies in India a hundred years ago, and now really leading the way towards a green future. What many people don't know is in addition to all his [00:03:00] executive responsibilities, Praveer is also a significant thought leader.
He is closely associated with MIT. He started the first incubator in India for clean energy. And does a lot in his personal time as well to support conservation. The CSR team at Tata Power does phenomenal work in our hydropower projects as well as promoting community and sustainable agricultural goals.
So many things. But today we will talk about India's transition to green energy and clean energy. So Praveer let me start off first with just a little bit of a backstory on your own journey. You entered the power sector many years ago, which is largely thermal, and today we are looking at India having a 50% green energy target by 2030.
You are at the forefront of it leading the way with Tata power. What has been your experience? What are you seeing emerging in India as innovation? What are some lessons we can learn from rest of the world to do and not to do both? So over to you.
[00:03:57] Mr. Praveer Sinha: So first of all, thank you Anjali, and thank you [00:04:00] Saksham for the warm introduction. I must compliment Avaana for taking the initiative for the thought leadership that you are bringing. Clean energy space and the transition that is taking place in energy. And I think the way the world is moving I'm sure Avaana will make a great contribution in terms of bringing this transformation, especially in our country.
I think what we need to look at it is how globally things are changing. And for all of us in the country and in Tata Power, this is a great opportunity. And why do I say this? Because India for a change has the right things, going, especially in the clean energy space, we have more than 300 days of sunshine, which not many have the benefit of.
We also have large tracks of areas in the country. Where very good quality wind speeds are there, [00:05:00] and wind plants can come up. And then we have also great potential in hydro power plant. And I think the clean energy is rightly positioned for the driving the new age power that would be supplied in the country as also leadership in terms of how we can support our neighboring countries as also many other places in the world, which is still struggling with the energy access.
And I think this is the opportunity, or this is the decade or few decades that India has to demonstrate leadership, both in thought as well as in action. And I personally feel that we are blessed to be at this time, Globally where the transition is taking place, the decentralization is happening, the decarbonization is happening, and the digital technology interventions are coming in, which will help us to really [00:06:00] transition from where we were earlier, where we were only worried about capacity addition and not worried about the usage of energy, which we will be able to do both in terms of distributed generation as also in terms of the optimum utilization that can be done based on the profile of generation from the renewable sources.
I am quite excited about the opportunity and I think this is the best phrase that the global power sector is going as also the Indian power sector is,
[00:06:34] Ms. Anjali Bansal: Great. So probably following up on that, when we all know that we are looking at a state of the world and not just state of the world. But also quality and society where everyone is talking about NetZero energy plays a very critical role in solving for NetZero. What do you see as emerging global trends, particularly how will the solutions required for developing countries [00:07:00] differ from that of developed countries?
And what we mean by that is developed countries have already gone through the economic growth path. We already have hyper capital, G D P, high levels of consumption, consequently actually a much higher carbon footprint whereas our market and society is still evolving in terms of economic progress and growth.
So there may not be a reduction in energy consumption, but how do we think about solving for net zero with not just a mitigation and carbon lens, but also building adaptation, helping our industry and society transition. And resilience building, which is supporting the more vulnerable segments of society.
So what will it, what will need to be different for developing countries versus developed countries? The path they have gone, the path we need to be on.
[00:07:47] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I think the, we are fortunate that the technology change has happened globally. We never had the opportunity to do such large scale of decarbonization at [00:08:00] an affordable cost. And I think the last few decades wherein the technology interventions that have happened, especially in solar generation and in wind power generation, is giving us the opportunity to bring the really low cost of clean energy solutions to our part of the country as also to many other countries, especially in sub-Sahara Africa who have challenge of no access or less access of energy, and the energy poverty, which continues to be prevalent over there. I think there are three things that I look at it from the perspective that what is the change or what is the transformation that is required if we have to go towards clean? The first is that we need to have intermittent energy, which is a challenge with the renewable energy.
And how do we make the solar plants and the and the [00:09:00] wind plants and the hydro plants work together to give solution, which will provide us 24x7 electricity. And I think that's an area that we need to work. We need to come up with much better solutions of giving hybrid parts supply.
Secondly, I think to make this reliable, we also need to look at the storage options. The storage can be chemical storage, it can be electrochemical, it can be electrical storage, and it can be thermal storage or any other mechanical storage that can be there. Again how do we make this storage sustainable, affordable and scalable?
And that's what is the challenge before us. And I think the type of research that needs to happen, whether it's in battery storage, in terms of what sort of chemistries that we'll have we should not get bogged down in just one type of chemistry, but look at various other chemistries, various other forms of batteries, whether it is the [00:10:00] lithium or the sodium batteries, or it is the liquid batteries.
So there are a whole lot of batteries that can come, flow, batteries, which are there. Secondly, we also need to look at it in terms of how these can have much longer life and the scalability part of it. So that's one area. We also will have to, I think at some state, work more diligently towards finding a solution for hydrogen.
Today, the hydrogen cost is prohibitive and until, unless we are able to bring down the hydrogen cost, and again, for producing hydrogen, 70% of your cost is the cost of power. And until, and unless you come up with again good solutions on renewable power the cost of hydrogen will not come down.
So that's another area that is there. The second area is also that when we talk of reliable power, we also need to look at it. How do you bring resiliency in the power supply?[00:11:00] You need to have a backup. In power systems, we always work on n minus one, N minus two n minus three supplies, so that in case one system fails, what is the backup that we have?
Backup to backup and If we have renewable power, we are little vulnerable in case the sun god is not very happy with us or the wind god is not there, then what do we do? And I think for resilience, we need to look at the alternate technologies. We unfortunately in our country don't have gas based plants, but that is one of the alternatives.
If we can get affordable cost of lng that can be one option. The other option is the nuclear power plant. We have seen that nuclear fission technology has been there, but there's whole lot of work that is now happening in nuclear fusion space. And can we now work towards nuclear fusion whereby we are able to produce clean energy [00:12:00] and large quantity of it are affordable cost, and it is safe and secure for this.
People who operate in are in that location. The third aspect is this security. One of the big things that we learned especially in last one and a half, two years, is how do you get this security of supply of setting up of these plans? And for us it's very important that the security of lithium or security, of supply of of any of the raw material, even silicon, is insured.
And we should not be just dependent. And that again, means that we need to look at some alternate technologies whereby we can ensure that the security of supply for alternate materials is there. And we are not dependent on single source or single. So I think when we look at the the opportunities which is there for clean energy, we need to consider these three aspects very closely.[00:13:00]
Fortunately the the clean energy solution provides us the opportunity to do decentralized generation, and I think that's one of the technology which is there, and we need to leverage on that today. Not much of leveraging is taking place, whether it is in urban areas or rural areas. If we can leverage that, then I think we will have more socialized and democratized use and generation of energy that can take place.
[00:13:29] Ms. Anjali Bansal: Probably we spoke about multiple things here. One is the given the current state of geopolitics and the particular dependence on both important minerals as well as semiconductors and so on, how do you see in some ways de-risking national energy?
So creating supply chain security policy support for it. The PLI schemes have been launched for solar, for example, solar modules. How are you seeing opportunities develop there? What are risks that [00:14:00] we, as a country and as an industry, should focus on mitigating as well? Where are their investments required perhaps for deep technology?
And there will be long gestation r and d that companies like Tata Power might try. So let me start with that. Then I will come to financing.
[00:14:15] Mr. Praveer Sinha: Yeah, absolutely right. And I agree with you that there is a huge challenge because there are few countries who control virtually 80% or 84% of poly silicon or vapors or cells or modules or lithium or rare metals of an adm, you name the metal 80 to 90 or 95% of it is so strong, a single country.
And we are very vulnerable. Everyone globally is vulnerable as we are in India also. And for us one option is that we go through the route of setting up these manufacturing facilities and compete with people who have been in this field for the last 20 years. [00:15:00] And mind you they're already scaling up big time.
They're already a few hundred gigawatt. They will become a thousand gigawatt in next three to five years. So by the time we become a hundred or 200, they will be in thousand and 1200. And we would be very vulnerable in terms of being competitive to them. And the the way that we have been starting now of imposing certain duties beyond a certain stage.
This does not work. It is anti-market and anti-consumer. So I think what it means also is that how do we come up with much smarter and much better solutions? How do we come up with technology? And I mentioned to you that I think we need to have a mindset change and we need to start from zero and say that I don't have a battery, I don't have lithium.
Can I have a sodium sulfate battery? Can I have a flow battery? Can I have a vanadium battery? [00:16:00] Can I have a red oxide battery? Can I have a liquid battery? Can we look at some of the other metals? So the chemistry that what we have learned and the periodic table that we have learned we need to reflect on it and say that why do we go for some of the metals, which are rare metals, and why not go for metals which are available in abandon and what.
We'll make that succeed. Similarly now we have gone through the traditional poly silicone route for the for making of the solar panel. There's a lot of work that is now going on, especially in terms of nanotechnology and using some of the organic liquids, which can be put on any sheet of paper, any substrated, and can be used further generating electricity and the cost.
They may be having lower efficiency, but the cost production will be one policy, silicon technology. So I need to look at [00:17:00] many of these things in a very different light. It also brings us to this to the stage where we should caution ourselves and say that how we can come up with the disruptions in technology, not incremental improvement, but absolutely leaving that technology and starting something new.
Which no one has tried. And that's a great opportunity. That's the place I think when we are talking of clean energy solutions, we should be focusing. That's an area that being power will be focusing. We will, with lot of researchers globally to see that how we can expedite some of these technology, how from lab to market we can bring this technology and how we can scale it up very quickly so that alternate solutions are much better than what we have today.
[00:17:52] Ms. Anjali Bansal: Great. And what are you seeing emerge in terms of regulation and policy support already to provide support for, say, [00:18:00] the electrification of mobility or more support for renewable energy, creating policy measures and pricing measures that are possible, hence to create more, say, microgrid and off-grid energy access.
So what are you seeing in terms of regulation and policy that is working and what else needs to be.
[00:18:19] Mr. Praveer Sinha: So I, I think that the government and the regulatory system in the country has been from time to time coming up with new policy initiatives and they have been supporting and encouraging to ensure that more and more penetration of renewable takes place more and more usage takes place and to facilitate in terms of the charging infrastructure.
In terms of the ecosystem whether it is in financing for electric vehicle or it is in terms of the p l i scheme or the incentive schemes that is being provided by the government, sir, in terms of labor of [00:19:00] registration charges. So I think the government and the regulatory system have done a lot of thing, but the speed at which we have to do many of these things can always improve.
We can always not be following the requirement, but proactively do many of the things which will to a large extent support and expedite the implementation of these programs. Similarly in the renewal, there's a lot of programs which are going on in terms of encouraging rooftop solar or solar pounds and all that.
The speed has to be three times more or five times more, and not at the pace at which we are going because this is an opportunity for us and we should not. Leave this opportunity and feel that this is a case of a missed bus or a missed opportunity for us.
[00:19:53] Ms. Anjali Bansal: So on that point, this is an upside opportunity really. In some ways we have less legacy as a [00:20:00] country. We can really create the kind of leapfrogging we have already seen on the digitization side. We have seen u p I, we have seen Aadhar. Where do you think there can be some pathbreaking, both product innovation that could be battery technologies and battery chemistries as you mentioned, but also business models that could really leapfrog India.
What has not been done elsewhere? Is it offgrid? Is it creating the presumer model? What could it.
[00:20:24] Mr. Praveer Sinha: you're absolutely right. The Presumer model, the democratization of energy. Today you go to villages the farmer gets electricity only certain hours of the day. They do not get it. When they want, they get it in midnight or early morning, and that's not the time that they would like to run their, for using water.
So I think what is required is to give the opportunity to the people that in rural areas, how you can, through solarization of palm sets, how you can really bring the opportunity to the farmer [00:21:00] and not only make. Self-dependent, but also use that energy to generate income from them. There have been instances where people have a lot of villages that we have seen, that people have used the solar pumps for not only irrigating their fields, but also irrigating fields in three kilometers of five radi.
So for them, supply of water has become a business and they're able to make a revenue out of it. Similarly, now, you don't need every day to run the irrigation pump sets. So during periods that you're not using, how can you supply to nearby shops or to provision stores who can use that energy for various other applications in their shops.
So I think there are very many business models which can happen, and it can be transformative in terms of. Village economy, which can change because this is empowering the local people in the village. [00:22:00] You, they don't have to depend on getting power from long distances. They don't have to depend on the discount employee to come and rectify your or support them in supply of electricity.
So this is really empowerment that is going into the hands of the people in the village. The second area is again whether it is the CNI customer or it is the residential customer you can, again, whether it is rooftop or ground mount renew, you can use that for meeting your energy requirement. This is good economics also as well as this is good business model for them because the cost of valuable power will be much lower than the cost at which they get power from the utilities.
Cause they're most of the time cross subsidizing the baseline consumers. I think when you look at it from the perspective of the opportun phenomenal opportunity and I personally feel that for us [00:23:00] it's not just only the technology, but for a country like us, which has 600,000 villages, we have 300 lac pump sets it can really be transformative. And we can see next 10 years a very different business model, a very different consumption model that can happen in the country. And we can maybe first one in, in, in countries or emerging markets. And if it succeeds over here, you can take it to whole of Africa and very many other places.
[00:23:32] Ms. Anjali Bansal: That's something we hear all the time that if you guys can solve it in India, if or if this can be solved at India's scale and complexity and price points, then these are solutions that are applicable across the world. So definitely seeing and hearing that from a lot of folks. One further question on this.
You look at not just India, but you look at innovation happening globally with your M I T hat on, and I know you do some work with the Columbia Climate School, et cetera as well. What are you [00:24:00] seeing in terms of some of the cutting edge technology or research that is going on outside India that you haven't seen much of yet here, that we should be thinking as a country and particularly as a startup and innovation ecosystem of either collaborating, partnering, what is it that you are seeing, the top three most exciting things that you've seen in the last six?
[00:24:22] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I see there's a whole lot of work that is happening on. Nanotechnology space whereby they're developing very specific products, especially in the solar area. And I think they can be really game changers in terms of the usage of how solar energy can be fully utilized. Every glass panel you use in your house can generate electricity and meet your requirement.
So that's a really game changer. If that's the thing happens it can really transform the usage and the supply of energy. The second space that I see is a lot of work [00:25:00] that is happening in plasma technology space. Both plasma technology for geo thermal. Whereby they will use plasma technology for going up to 10, 15 kilometers and using geothermal energy.
And the second is they can definitely also use it. That plasma technology for nuclear fusion. And again, there's a lot of work, cutting edge work that is going on. I do expect that in next five to seven years, we'll see some very transformative things happening. There is a sense of urgency also I see in many of these institutions and researchers globally.
I also see that the type of money that is going in, especially the recent innovation act which is there in us we will have some very good technology coming in which can be used not only in US and the global market, but also in our country. We are working with some of these technology [00:26:00] partners and I feel quite excited about the opportunity that you can provide us, if we can really make them successful.
[00:26:09] Ms. Anjali Bansal: No, that's great. I think this is I can imagine a lot of founders and innovators are taking notes seriously over here. Before I move on to the next question, I also wanted to see how you are seeing not just on the technology side, but business model innovation, different ways of, I'm a very happy customer, for example, of the Tata Nexon, and I bought one after test driving yours.
A phenomenal car. And of course, what made it very possible to use it was tata power coming and installing the charging point. What are business models that need to emerge to support all these technologies?
[00:26:45] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I think one of the big changes in the past sector that you would see is the disruption that will take place amongst the way the energy is supplied. The digital technology will support you in terms of optimizing your [00:27:00] usage of energy for yourself. Remotely. You can control all your equipments.
And these are simple equipments. That and not very complicated, not very expensive. Plug-in play equipments you would have also platforms which are plug and play. A simple app that control everything that you want to control in your house in your solar panels. So it'll tell you every data points and it'll also give you the intelligence in terms of the usage pattern and how you can optimize it.
So I think all in one single solution, which can not only be a controller of the energy, but also in terms of monitoring of the energy you said and supporting you in your decision making, in what sort of energy you want to use and how you can reduce the consumption that you can do and reduce the cost that you pay.
These will be very simple solutions, which will be on your fingertips. [00:28:00] Single app. You can do everything that you want and at the end of the day, it'll tell you exactly what all you have done, how your consumption pattern is there, how it was yesterday, how it was a month back, how. People in your neighborhood are doing so, so it'll give you a whole lot of data points which will help you to become much more careful and more intelligent in terms of usage of energy.
So I think that's the biggest option that will happen. The conventional utility will be only for purpose of balancing. So gone are the days when you would be dependent on the utilities service provider and they'll come and tell you when to supply, when not to supply monthly bills and things like that will be a thing of the past.
You can control on real realtime cases. On daily basis. You can decide how much of green power you want to purchase, how much of non-green [00:29:00] power you want to purchase. You want to buy from the exchange you want to buy directly. So whole lot of options will come to you and you will to that extent.
Be able to decide what the way you want to use power. So that's the big transformation that will happen.
[00:29:17] Ms. Anjali Bansal: Good one. And then just taking a step back saying, this is India's year as g 20 President and so on. What should we do to really leverage that platform in terms of green finance? Green finance in large companies like Tata Power are able to access large global markets, but there is so much sustainable finance that is available.
How do we make that, bring that into India, bring, make that more available, particularly for MSEs, for startups. So any thoughts on that?
[00:29:46] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I think we need to popularize and make it simple. In terms of documentation that is required for especially SMEs we work through cdb with a lot of SMEs in the country. How do we again, go [00:30:00] and popularize it? How do we go and disseminate the information to them? How do we make it a simple one date application?
Andnot an application with many annexures. So how do we make it more user friendly? How do we make it more consumer friendly? That's what is required. Also I think there has to be much more than just talk about the green financing. Proof of the pudding is in eating, and I think it has to be demonstrated in terms of what is the low interest rates or better financing terms, long term financing instruments.
Those have to be given. And I think we need to really demonstrate it by offering it to the low end consumers. And I'll tell you that for last two years, we have been running the Rooftop program and we do it for residential as well as the small and medium scale industries. The delinquency level is [00:31:00] very low. The of certain amount we've not even used 1% of that. So I think we need to really do the hand and support people. And I think this can really scale up if we are able to tie up everything together. Cause many a times what happens, everyone goes separately, the financing person goes separate, person goes separately, the supplier goes separately, and then someone is doing the AMC and all that.
So if we can offer a packet solution, I think we'll be in a much better position to have more access.
[00:31:38] Ms. Anjali Bansal: No, that's great. We are starting to see at least a couple of companies who are trying to bring it all together in a platform way with a technology first and a digital approach as you have suggested. So it's encouraging to see that. I'm going to now open this up to questions from our participants and I will actually start with one more question from the Avaana team what should clean [00:32:00] energy startups do to collaborate and grow along with startup power? So I know it's a topic close to your heart. How are we currently collaborating with startups and what can startups do to collaborate more?
[00:32:10] Mr. Praveer Sinha: Yeah. So if you have a good idea, come to us, but it should be a good idea. It should be a tested idea. Tested idea in terms of the value of it and in terms of the potential cost. And we will support you in terms of providing you. The infrastructure, providing you the handholding that is required, and also in terms of financing you with seed capital.
Also if whenever you are ready to take it to the market, we'll do the trial runs. We will do the testing of the solution for you. So there's a whole lot of incubation work that we do as well as accelerator work that we do with the startup. So anyone who has a good idea please send us, in fact, to the run program also for our employees which is all nice, the [00:33:00] entrepreneurship in campus.
So employees can also take a sabbatical for two years and come up with their ideas. Of course you have to go through a challenge process and get selected, but if you have a good idea, we'll support you. We'll go allowed and see doing that, it becomes successful.
[00:33:19] Ms. Anjali Bansal: That's great. There I say very energizing as well. Going to the next question. We spoke about financing. And interest rates, and given the rise in interest rates, making the cost of capital higher, and we are seeing volatility really around the world. Are you seeing or expecting to see an, unfortunately, a slowdown in investments that might be put towards the net to zero transition?
[00:33:45] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I, I think more than the interest rate is the is the counterparty guarantees, which is more important. So if it is a market and the counterpart are good, then you'll be able [00:34:00] to get funding. Though it may be 50 or hundred basis point, more than what it
Or maybe 200 points more. But there is definitely an appetite for renewable projects.
The challenge is the demand has to come and the demand has to come from people who are in a position to pay whatever service you.
[00:34:19] Ms. Anjali Bansal: We spoke about price volatility of critical minerals like nickel, cobalt, lithium rare earth, et cetera, which unlike coal and fossil fuel, and we've been in tar par in the coal and fossil fuel business for a long time.
Both of these come through long-term supply arrangements. So you know, you are able to have some predictability in terms of costs. How does solar PV battery manufacturing address this kind of price volatility? How much do you do in forward? How much do you do in spot and really how do you secure this?
[00:34:49] Mr. Praveer Sinha: Unfortunately, the, there is nothing forward in this type of commodities and products. We have to go by the market for safe [00:35:00] and because it is a monopoly. There are just few players globally, and especially from one country most of the time. They they have a single thing that you take it or evict.
So there is no way that you can insulate yourself from long-term pricing increases or price rise. They are no take or take contract. You have to. An arrangement where it is linked to certain input material, community prices. And I think once more players come in, there are more opportunity, more options, then possibly we'll be in a much better position too insulate ourselves from the the type of price rises we have seen in last few years.
[00:35:47] Ms. Anjali Bansal: What are some large gaps in clean energy space where you think startups will actually play a bigger role versus large infrastructure companies? And I, the reason I say it's an excellent question is because clearly there are some areas that will [00:36:00] require large amounts of CapEx, whether it's green hydrogen or it's large scale infrastructure built.
So those will go with, say, large companies. So where are there opportune areas or gaps where you think startups can actually play a bigger role?
[00:36:14] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I, I think startups can play a bigger role in everything. And I'll give you just two examples that we have been working. One is in this space of sensors, IOTs, which use for various machines, various equipments, various applications, and they have been startups who have come up with very low cost sensors.
And these IOTs can be used on any rotating equipment, stationary equipment, and on real time basis they monitor the condition of the equipment, the energy usage, and how the predictability can be done in terms of whether it requires operating, it requires a repair, maintenance, whatever it is. So I think there is a lot of [00:37:00] opportunities in these type of spaces.
There's also a lot of opportunities in everything that we do in the past sector, starting from simple things like smart meters. How you can make these smart meters more intelligent in terms of, and how they can do two-way communication on usage of energy and also on giving the analytics of usage of energy.
You can do way many other things in terms of every type of equipment that you use in clean energy, the solar panels into the analytics of it in terms of what are the hotspots, how the generation has been there. So you can do any type of I would say startup work, but it has to be unique.
It has to be different. We have also supported one company, which is working on bio cng now Bio cng, especially in village areas is becoming very important as a part of [00:38:00] providing. Supply using just waste material over there. Certain classified waste material. You can produce bio cng, which can be used for generating electricity as also for providing acid cooking gas to the villages.
There's a startup which has worked with us for the last three years. We've now done pilot in few villages, and we feel confident that the bio CNG solution can be a game changer, especially when we are doing micro grids in villages. So earlier we had the solar panel, the battery, and then a backup of DG set.
Now we are removing the, and it's the bio cng that we'll be using. And that gives us 24 7 access as also provides us the opportunity to provide clean fuel to the people in the village. So I think there are whole lot of ideas that are there. We can share some of the ideas that we have, but we would [00:39:00] definitely like to hear from many of our youngsters as to what is it that they feel can really be transformative, can be disruptive in the way the energy can be supplied.
Not only clean energy, but also at affordable.
[00:39:17] Ms. Anjali Bansal: Was curious about your perspective on how to best quantify the commercial benefits of large Indian companies or even MSEs of setting and meeting net zero goals is there, your thought school of thought or a thought process on the social cost of carbon that you would subscribe to both individually and a startup power and would recommend as best practice for an enterprise cost benefit point of view.
[00:39:43] Mr. Praveer Sinha: Yeah. For us it is very important to, first of all, measure and then only you can monitor, and then you can quantify it. The challenge in our is that the measurement part of it has been very weak and science based[00:40:00] indicators that we are now looking at and is working in developing solutions for that.
That will be very helpful to actually quantify that. What sort of social impact it has, what is the benefit and if you don't do, what is the impact of it? What is the negative of it? So I think it's very important for us to start doing this in a more scientific basis rather than on some of the metrics which are right now available, but they are very qualitative and not quantitative that we should be.
[00:40:38] Ms. Anjali Bansal: I know that tata power has also been like many other areas, pioneering and being one of the first companies really to embrace the B R S R full sustainability reporting. Even when it was not mandatory and using SBTI as a tool. So what are some of the learnings along the way that we've had so far?
Praveer and particularly as people start thinking about where to build businesses and [00:41:00] where they can play in that value chain.
[00:41:03] Mr. Praveer Sinha: So now for us, it has still been a learning phase and we are still trying to figure out what is the best way especially globally, who are the companies. I think there is a challenge globally also. And as a part of the larger team, which is working on SBTI we are trying to configure the various parameters and the metrics on which each of these have to be measured.
And and I think it's very important for us. To really get into the net zero in terms of not only usage, but also the others who are involved with us. Scope one spoke to, spoke three. We need to get into more detailing of it. These are, I would say a little early there, but what is good is that people are sensitized about it and they have started discussing and talking about it earlier.
All these issues were put under the carpet and everyone used to forget about it. And [00:42:00] some generic numbers were floated around, which did not really get, do justice to what are the challenges before that. But now that there is more awareness that has taken place, I'm sure we'll come up with some good ideas, good suggestion, and we'll implement some of them and we'll share the learnings that we have got when we implement.
[00:42:20] Ms. Anjali Bansal: No, for sure. So this takes us to, what do you think is more important and more value adding, to society and humanity? Is it carbon capture? Or just saving carbon, not emitting it in the first place.
[00:42:33] Mr. Praveer Sinha: I think both are important and we should not forget that we need to transition. So for us, it is not that we have a, and we can say that we can move away from the hard to abate industries and carbon intensive industries and move to absolutely clean energy solutions. So for us, carbon capture is as important as to going for solutions, which are going [00:43:00] to be net carbon. Now zero. I think we should be very clear that that there has to be a transition path. It has to be a fast transition path, not 50 years and 70 years ends. We need to do it much faster.
We may not have a planet with us if we keep on delaying. And and there is an opportunity for us to learn and do things much faster. So what we have been doing many things in last hundred years, or last 200 years, within next 10 years, 20 years, 30 year. So the chemistry of Periodic cycle, which is more than two 50 years, Cavendish found.
Has to be compressed in 25 years. The power industry, which Thomas Edison found out more than we need to do it in 10, 15 years, we don't have the luxury of time, which many of these earlier inventions had. So I think we need to work very hard and [00:44:00] very fast.
[00:44:01] Ms. Anjali Bansal: And sometimes crisis also leads to opportunity. And as we think about, where we sit, India and we imagine India at hundred 25 years later, and you said 25 years. So that's what popped into my head is we really do have the unique opportunity. We are a fast growing economy, young country soon to be the largest country, most populous country in the world, 20% roughly about the world's population lives here or thereabouts in our neighborhood.
And consequently, it is not, it is absolutely imperative that we continuing continue our economic progress and growth, which means we will consume more steel, more cement, more power. Hard to abate industries are a fact of life. They're not going away. We are not going to have solutions overnight. So transitioning is super important, but it also creates an opportunity, as I mentioned earlier, as we have leapfrogged in other areas.
I think, just relying on the amazing energy, entrepreneurial energy innovation ideas, technology based that we have in India to create solutions where our growth path need [00:45:00] not be the growth path post industrialization globally, which led to significant deterioration in our environment, whether it is war or water, air and our soil.
And certainly, other countries in the east that have grown fast but have done so at the cost of the environment. So maybe we do in India actually have a unique opportunity to do it differently and do it well. So when we are looking at India at hundred, it's a cleaner, greener, very prosperous and very sustainable growth model that India has followed.
So thank you. This has been a wonderful conversation. I'll turn to you for a couple of final remarks, and then one last question. What is your advice to startup founders and whether they're founders or innovators or people who are thinking about the next big problem to solve, what is the advice you would give them?
[00:45:48] Mr. Praveer Sinha: You are doing a great job and you should do it much faster as if there's no tomorrow. And I think there are whole lot of areas that we need to contest and [00:46:00] we should not get complacent that this is what has been done over there and that's the all and end all. I think we are fortunate to be positioned in such a stage where, All of us in India have the opportunity to really become big in terms of our actions and and this is the time for us to deliver and really make it happen in the next one.
So I think we are very fortunate to be part of this transformation, which is going on in this country. And we should make the best of it. I there would be challenges, but I'm sure we'll be able to overcome many of them if we put our mind together. And I think the name of the game is collaboration.
Most of the time we don't do that sort of collaboration. We should not hesitate to collaborate in within the country and also outside the country. Cause that's where we'll have the melting pot and the best of the minds and best of the solutions.[00:47:00]
[00:47:01] Ms. Anjali Bansal: So be fearless be fierce, be quick, don't wait. Be in a hurry, and absolutely collaborate. I think those are the big takeaways. Praveer thank you so much for a terrific conversation, energizing discussion, and we hope to see you again at the Avaana Climate Corner. Thank you.
[00:47:18] Mr. Praveer Sinha: Thank you and all the best to Avaana Climate Corner and to you for your leadership, for taking this discussion and this thought leadership forward. Thank you.